| Oscar Waddell talking about Willis Stearles |
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| Narrator: Oscar Waddell (talking about Willis Stearles) |
| Interviewer: Jean McCrossin |
| Date: August 13, 1988 |
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| OW |
My name is Oscar Waddell. I live at 311 East Lincoln Street [Bloomington]. I can truthfully
say that I was one of Willis Stearles' boys, brought up from my youth under his guidance. He
was a friend of the family and like pretty near all the boys could say, white and Black, he
was a great inspiration to the boys. How to get along with your fellowman. How to conduct
yourself. I can truthfully say that Willis Stearles truly was an American. His ways and his
actions is what all Americans should be like. I can remember he was like the family when we
was kids because my father and him were friends, and his brother and my father were very good
friends. They were buddies together. Back in them days you were just automatically-if you was
children, you answered unto them and respected them, your father's friends and stuff like that
there, and that's the way it would go.I can remember I used to go as a kid swimming. It was
segregated, but Willis would always tell us to go along with it and one of these days it will
be right. Even if you didn't have money to swim, he'd let you do a little something so you
could swim if you didn't have money. He knew the ones who could and who couldn't. And he was
always interested in that swimming house, folding towels and stuff like that-he would let
little Colored kids and the white kids earn their money and stuff like that there. He was a
fellow. He never met a stranger. He was always congenial, and if you asked him something, he
would always take time to tell you about it. I used to go over there and ask him a million
and one questions about the animals, and he could always tell about the animals and stuff
like that. I asked him one day, I said, "How did you learn so much about these animals, Mr.
Stearles?"He said, "When I first stated to work I didn't know nothing. I got this job and I
got books and I read, and then by experience and stuff like that I gained knowledge." And I
know that I can remember a lot of times that different zoos would call up Willis about
different things like how did the lion do, how he was acting and stuff like that. And Willis
would tell them what he done, remedies and stuff like that, and it worked. The animals loved
him. They just loved him, and lots of times we would be out there, and him and Mr. [Charles]
Poll. They worked together so long together, and they were just two alike. Mr. Poll and him
got to be friends of mine, and as I grew into manhood I would continue to go out there.But
one thing foremost that I could remember as a kid on Labor Day we always-the Negro families,
good families, would go to a house-the families would bring the baskets and stuff like that
there. It was the Skinners, they lived out on Livingston, and we would be in the yard. They
had a big yard and stuff, and us kids would play. But I can always remember one thing, at
five o'clock Willis Stearles used to down that flag, and he draped that American flag acrost
him, and he'd tell us kids that there had never been a Black man that was a traitor to the
American flag. And that stuck with me all of my life. He'd walk with that flag draped around
him-I can see him now just as proud as proud can be. But he had a way to tell his story to
young men and young women. It was indelible in our minds as we are older now, and we know
what he was saying to us.And then as time went on I was called to the service of my country
and served in the army myself. He used to tell us how he served in World War I, and at the
time it used to thrill me, but I didn't realize what he was talking about until I got into
the army, and the things that he said to me was indelible. I was like him. I was proud of my
country, and it was an honor for me to serve my country. I can remember many times on
retreat-I did basic training in Jefferson Barracks, and we'd have our retreat parade, and
when they pulled that flag down, I am not ashamed to say tears would roll down my eyes. To
see that flag come down, let me know that I was part of that flag.I went from there-basic
training and further training and served in the 1895 Aviation Engineers. It was a company
not too many Negroes was in because they figured that Negroes wasn't smart enough. We were
men from Illinois, Michigan, and Ohio. They formed this company battalion, and we went
overseas. We shipped out of Tallahassee, Florida to the South Pacific. I served in the
South Pacific on Guam, helped build North Field, the field they flew the atomic bomb from.
All during the time in the Army I remembered Willis. And every now and then I'd write him a
letter, he would write me a letter of encouragement.When we come back after the war was over,
naturally Willis was in the Legion, and you know being as close as I was to him, the first
thing he said, "You got to join the Legion." And that's what I did. And he-at the that time,
Willis was sergeant at arms of the county, sergeant at arms of the Seventeenth District,
sergeant at arms of the Fourth Division and assistant state sergeant at arms. So he served
in four capacities, and I had the honor to be able to take him around to the different
meetings he would go. He would always take me with him, I not realizing at the time that he
was grooming me to replace him.
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| JM | Were those all-Black Legion posts? |
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| OW |
Oh, no. The county was all of McLean County-all the posts in the county-all the posts in the
seventeenth district. Now he served the Seventeenth District. Les Ahrends-you see, him and
Les Ahrends was good friends. Willis was a diplomat, and he knew all these big legionnaires
[and] politicians. See, this is Black and white. This was the conventions and stuff where you
go around to different ones, and I had the honor to go with him and to meet all these men and
stuff like that there. They were friends. And he trained-at the time I didn't realize what
Chief was doing. He put me up. He'd conduct meetings, and he'd let me work in there. I said,
"Well, Chief, you're it." He said, "You don't know, one of these days I might not be here.
You'll have to take my shoes."" Oh, no." He said, "You do what I tell you." And sure enough -
one day Chief had a nosebleed. That is the only thing that saved him that time-he had a bad
nosebleed, but it kept coming till he had a fatal heart attack. And then at that time he had
worked me into every office that he had held. I didn't realize what he was doing. And then
after he died, I took over, and I got every office that he had held-sergeant at arms county,
Seventeenth District. I served a big deal at Melvin where Les Ahrends had. We took the guard
over there. I never forget that night. Les made a speech, and he told them he was so happy
that this sergeant at arms had brought his colors to Ahrends. Les Ahrends (unintelligible)
and he was such a fine fellow-Les Ahrends was. He told them that he knew "Tiny." They called
me Tiny. (unintelligible) when Willis Stearles was there. He said, "My good friend, Willis
Stearles." And it made me proud to be associated with Willis, and the many great things that
he had done. And there's a lot of people in the state of Illinois that don't know Willis
Stearles, but there is a lot of legionnaires in Illinois that respect Willis Stearles today
for he stands for. He was in my eyesight one of the greatest Negro men here in Bloomington.
Not only-what I liked about him he not only helped his race, his race, but he helped all
races because he instilled in them the love of their country, and I don't believe there's no
man that loved this country any better than Willis Stearles.
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| JM |
Now you said he was one of the founders of the Redd-Williams Post. |
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| OW |
Willis Stearles was one of the founders. |
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| JM |
A charter member? |
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| OW |
Charter member of the Redd-Williams Post. |
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| JM |
At that time after World War I were the legion posts segregated
for a reason or just because they felt more comradeship?
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| OW |
It was segregated to a certain extent. What happened is they formed different posts. Now see,
Redd-Williams Post was 163. It was one of the oldest posts in the state of Illinois. Now Louis
E. Davis is 56, and we were 163, and I think the next post to us was Anchor, 164. And at one
time Redd-Williams Post was looked on as one of the better posts of the state of Illinois-it
was recognized by the efforts of Willis Stearles and how he worked in the Legion. You see we
was a Colored post, but when you went from there to county we come in together-it was a county
organization then. We were a member of the county. We were a member of the district. A member
of the Fourth Division and so on. Even we were a member of all over the United States.But
there was segregation. I'm not sure if it is still that way. They call it the forty and
eight-it was segregated. I'm not sure if it still is or not, but I know one thing, I went to
Washington D. C. (Unintelligible)Winters and all them from McLean County was there. There
wasn't supposed to be no Negroes in the forty and eight, but I rode the train in the national
convention. My wife-(Unintelligible) and (unintelligible) said, "Come on in. You can ride
with us, Oscar. We'll bring him back Ruth." If it is still segregated I'm not sure, but I
know they told me if it ever desegregated, they wanted me to be one of the first in McLean
County. But any function the forty and eight had, I was there anyway. So I really-there was
no segregation. But I think now you can belong to the forty and eight. I think at one time
there was a policy you couldn't. But I'm pretty sure you can now. But you see I haven't been
active in the American Legion for twenty-five years because I went into the church. I'm a
deacon in the church. It's a wonder that I have a wife today really because I was gone every
Sunday-either a district meeting or the seventeenth district meeting or a department meeting.
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| JM |
In the American Legion? |
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| OW |
Yeah. I had to go. So when I went into church, I resigned all my offices, but I still had
my membership, but Willis Stearles was to me "Mr. Legionnaire." He was Mr. Legionnaire.
In Bloomington I think everybody knew him as the zookeeper.
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| JM |
Could you tell about when the administration changed,
and he lost his job and what happened there?
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| OW |
Well, that (chuckles) was kinda comical. The administration was Republican or Democrat was -
think Willis was a Republican if I can remember right. And the Democrats got in so Willis
and Mr. Poll lost their jobs, and the animals would not eat. So it got to the place where
the animals were getting so poor they had to do something. So they met-I think the council
met-and said, "What are we going to do?" Some of them said, "You know what you got to do.
If you don't get Willis and Poll back there, they ain't gonna have any animals. You got to
give them men their jobs back." It was kinda comical. They said, "The animals are smarter
than you anyway." The (unintelligible) out there said, "We know that Willis is a Republican,
but Willis was a man and you better put them back on." And that's what they did. I guess the
day that they went back the people that was there just applauded them when they walked in to
work, you know. Willis Stearles was there until he died. Whether it was a Democrat or a
Republican, they didn't fool with Willis Stearles or Mr. Poll. Mr. Poll was a white man and
Willis Stearles was a Colored man, but you never seen two men as close as them two men. I
seen them from a young kid to manhood. They were two men alike. I never heard an argument,
a hard word, never. They just worked together. Just like in the obituary I heard Charlie
Poll tell many a time, if he had it to do over again, he'd chose Willis Stearles. There are
so many things the man has done, you can't name them, but his life was an indelible mark on
the lives of young men and women in Bloomington. He knew how to make character-make your
character better. Knew how to get along with your fellowman, and I never-one time he was.
They used to have to guard the park. Willis had a stick, I can remember. Now they have
guards in the park, you know, with guns. Willis Stearles. Never was a time-Willis would
come up to a car and say, "Come on now, let's break it up.""All right, Willis, I'm gone."
Everybody knew him, everybody knew him. He used to say-I called him Chief. I'd say, "Chief,
what do you carry that stick for. You ain't gonna use it." He'd say, "I gotta to carry
something, but I don't need it. The people are cooperative." But sometimes other guys
walking it would have problems. Willis would never have problems.
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| JM |
They had no children of their own. |
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| OW |
Never had. He called me his son. He never had no children of his own, and she, Kathryn, was
a fine lady. (unintelligible) Like men and women, they'd get to arguing, and she'd tell him -
I can hear her say, "Now, Willis, don't get too smart with me, I'll put you out. You know
this is my house." (laughs)"Now Kathryn." But I'll tell you, they were close.
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| JM |
Do you know anything about his education? Did he graduate from grade school or anything?
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| OW |
I think he graduated from high school. |
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| JM |
From high school? |
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| OW |
I think he did. |
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| JM |
It's hard to find any records. I'm going to check this.
I'll turn it off. (tape is turned off)
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| OW |
Kathryn and Willis didn't have no children of their own so they took in Normal
students that stayed in her house. I don't know how many. I think they had four.
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| JM |
Girls. |
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| OW |
Girls. And they would keep them, and they would give them the run of the house and stuff
like that there. Back in those days, they didn't have dormitories and stuff out in Normal
for Negroes. And that's the way the Negroes stayed. They stayed in homes. As a matter of
fact my people kept girls when we lived in Normal, and lot of Negro families kept homes.
The university screened you to see what caliber of people you were. They wouldn't let them
stay in just any place. So many, many people stayed in homes. I know you met Professor
Barton [Wilbur Barton] from Indianapolis. His people kept people in their home. They'd
either would keep boys of girls. This was the way that they did. Like I say Willis and
them would keep girls and stuff like that, and of course, it was a livelihood for them.
I think Kathryn's people left her some money. I couldn't swear to it, but they had fine
things, you know, what I mean, good things. I know I used to bring Chief home from the
zoo, and he would stop at maybe the A & P or something like that. There would be sales
and stuff, and he'd buy stuff. They just had a store in. They had a pantry. They had
everything you wanted in that store. I don't know if you remember Dale Jaspers or not.
He graduated with us.
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| JM |
I remember the name. |
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| OW |
He used to work at IPL, and Dale got into buying different things. He had kinda like a
discount house. Matter of fact, I bought that lamp from Dale. Several pieces around here
I bought from Dale. Anyway, someway, somehow after Mrs. Stearles died, Dale bought the
stuff she had in the house, and she had sheets brand new. She had canned goods never been
used. He told me, "Oscar, you wouldn't believe when I went in that house to get the stuff,
to take the stuff." I think he give them a price of $200.00 or something for the whole
thing. He said, "I just took a chance on it." He said, "I'm going to tell you the truth.
That was the best investment I ever made." He said, "I gotta tell you-books and stuff."
He said, "For some reason or other, I just open up a book." He said, "I leafed through
there. Here's a ten-dollar bill. Here's a five-dollar bill. Here's a twenty. I went through
the books and stuff like that there." He never would tell me what he got. But he said,
"You wouldn't believe the money that I got." They just put it in the book, you know, and
set it back up there. He said, "The same way under a rug, you might find a ten or a twenty." He said, "In the closets, the dressers, you might run across a ten or a twenty laid way in
there, too." He said, "The money alone. I got more money, cash money, than the merchandise
I got. A lot of that merchandise was brand new. Sheets and pillowcases and stuff like that
there. They'd just buy it and put it away. So you never know about people. When Willis
died, she more or less-she didn't know what to do.
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